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Russell Borogove
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It would probably not have been practical to do a three-stage, single launch LOR Saturn/Apollo all on kerosene; the specific impulse advantage of the J-2 engines is just too great.

According to my spreadsheet estimates, a four-stage kerosene rocket almost 3 times the size of Saturn V could do it.

The translunar stage, S-IV-K, is 127138 tons propellant, 812 tons dry, 47 tons payload (Apollo CSM and LM). 1x H-1 engine (as used on the Saturn 1B).

Third stage, S-III-K, 423t465 propellant, 27t35t dry, 1x F-1 engine.

Second stage, S-II-K, 1504t1674t propellant, 96t126t dry, 3x F-1 engines.

First stage, S-I-K, 5640t6392t propellant, 360t408t dry, 14x16x F-1 engines.

All-up mission launch mass of this "Saturn XIV"XVI" would be 82329297 tons.

First 3 stages produce ~9600 m/s of delta-v, taking the beast to a 185km circular orbit. Fourth stage produces ~3400 m/s to send the spacecraft to the moon.

The mass could be brought down substantially withwith more optimized engines; both the F-1 and H-1 were designed as first-stage engines. Larger nozzle extensions, particularly on the 3rd and 4th stages, would improve the specific impulse, without requiring all-new engine designs. With an "H-1V" producing 320s ISP and an "F-1V" producing 337s, total launch mass could be brought down to 62706820 tons or so, with "only" 1112 engines on the first stage.

Both my answers are, obviously, merely rough Kerbal-style feasibility estimates.

(Amended tonnages to reflect more conservative fuel tank mass fractions.)

It would probably not have been practical to do a three-stage, single launch LOR Saturn/Apollo all on kerosene; the specific impulse advantage of the J-2 engines is just too great.

According to my spreadsheet estimates, a four-stage kerosene rocket almost 3 times the size of Saturn V could do it.

The translunar stage, S-IV-K, is 127 tons propellant, 8 tons dry, 47 tons payload (Apollo CSM and LM). 1x H-1 engine (as used on the Saturn 1B).

Third stage, S-III-K, 423t propellant, 27t dry, 1x F-1 engine.

Second stage, S-II-K, 1504t propellant, 96t dry, 3x F-1 engines.

First stage, S-I-K, 5640t propellant, 360t dry, 14x F-1 engines.

All-up mission launch mass of this "Saturn XIV" would be 8232 tons.

First 3 stages produce ~9600 m/s of delta-v, taking the beast to a 185km circular orbit. Fourth stage produces ~3400 m/s to send the spacecraft to the moon.

The mass could be brought down substantially with more optimized engines; both the F-1 and H-1 were designed as first-stage engines. Larger nozzle extensions, particularly on the 3rd and 4th stages, would improve the specific impulse, without requiring all-new engine designs. With an "H-1V" producing 320s ISP and an "F-1V" producing 337s, total launch mass could be brought down to 6270 tons or so, with "only" 11 engines on the first stage.

Both my answers are, obviously, merely rough Kerbal-style feasibility estimates.

It would probably not have been practical to do a three-stage, single launch LOR Saturn/Apollo all on kerosene; the specific impulse advantage of the J-2 engines is just too great.

According to my spreadsheet estimates, a four-stage kerosene rocket 3 times the size of Saturn V could do it.

The translunar stage, S-IV-K, is 138 tons propellant, 12 tons dry, 47 tons payload (Apollo CSM and LM). 1x H-1 engine (as used on the Saturn 1B).

Third stage, S-III-K, 465 propellant, 35t dry, 1x F-1 engine.

Second stage, S-II-K, 1674t propellant, 126t dry, 3x F-1 engines.

First stage, S-I-K, 6392t propellant, 408t dry, 16x F-1 engines.

All-up mission launch mass of this "Saturn XVI" would be 9297 tons.

First 3 stages produce ~9600 m/s of delta-v, taking the beast to a 185km circular orbit. Fourth stage produces ~3400 m/s to send the spacecraft to the moon.

The mass could be brought down substantially with more optimized engines; both the F-1 and H-1 were designed as first-stage engines. Larger nozzle extensions, particularly on the 3rd and 4th stages, would improve the specific impulse, without requiring all-new engine designs. With an "H-1V" producing 320s ISP and an "F-1V" producing 337s, total launch mass could be brought down to 6820 tons or so, with "only" 12 engines on the first stage.

Both my answers are, obviously, merely rough Kerbal-style feasibility estimates.

(Amended tonnages to reflect more conservative fuel tank mass fractions.)

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Russell Borogove
  • 171.8k
  • 14
  • 605
  • 714

It would probably not have been practical to do a three-stage, single launch LOR SaturnSaturn/ApolloApollo all on kerosene; the specific impulse advantage of the J-2J-2 engines is just too great.

According to my spreadsheet estimates, a four-stage kerosene rocket almost 3 times the size of Saturn V could do it.

The translunar stage, S-IV-K, is 127 tons propellant, 8 tons dry, 47 tons payload (Apollo CSM and LM). 1x H-1H-1 engine (as used on the Saturn 1B).

Third stage, S-III-K, 423t propellant, 27t dry, 1x F-1F-1 engine.

Second stage, S-II-K, 1504t propellant, 96t dry, 3x F-1 engines.

First stage, S-I-K, 5640t propellant, 360t dry, 14x F-1 engines.

All-up mission launch mass of this "Saturn XIV" would be 8232 tons.

First 3 stages produce ~9600 m/s of delta-v, taking the beast to a 185km circular orbit. Fourth stage produces ~3400 m/s to send the spacecraft to the moon.

The mass could be brought down substantially with more optimized engines; both the F-1 and H-1 were designed as first-stage engines. Larger nozzle extensions, particularly on the 3rd and 4th stages, would improve the specific impulse, without requiring all-new engine designs. With an "H-1V" producing 320s ISP and an "F-1V" producing 337s, total launch mass could be brought down to 6270 tons or so, with "only" 11 engines on the first stage.

Both my answers are, obviously, merely rough Kerbal-style feasibility estimates.

It would probably not have been practical to do a three-stage, single launch LOR Saturn/Apollo all on kerosene; the specific impulse advantage of the J-2 engines is just too great.

According to my spreadsheet estimates, a four-stage kerosene rocket almost 3 times the size of Saturn V could do it.

The translunar stage, S-IV-K, is 127 tons propellant, 8 tons dry, 47 tons payload (Apollo CSM and LM). 1x H-1 engine (as used on the Saturn 1B).

Third stage, S-III-K, 423t propellant, 27t dry, 1x F-1 engine.

Second stage, S-II-K, 1504t propellant, 96t dry, 3x F-1 engines.

First stage, S-I-K, 5640t propellant, 360t dry, 14x F-1 engines.

All-up mission launch mass of this "Saturn XIV" would be 8232 tons.

First 3 stages produce ~9600 m/s of delta-v, taking the beast to a 185km circular orbit. Fourth stage produces ~3400 m/s to send the spacecraft to the moon.

The mass could be brought down substantially with more optimized engines; both the F-1 and H-1 were designed as first-stage engines. Larger nozzle extensions, particularly on the 3rd and 4th stages, would improve the specific impulse, without requiring all-new engine designs. With an "H-1V" producing 320s ISP and an "F-1V" producing 337s, total launch mass could be brought down to 6270 tons or so, with "only" 11 engines on the first stage.

It would probably not have been practical to do a three-stage, single launch LOR Saturn/Apollo all on kerosene; the specific impulse advantage of the J-2 engines is just too great.

According to my spreadsheet estimates, a four-stage kerosene rocket almost 3 times the size of Saturn V could do it.

The translunar stage, S-IV-K, is 127 tons propellant, 8 tons dry, 47 tons payload (Apollo CSM and LM). 1x H-1 engine (as used on the Saturn 1B).

Third stage, S-III-K, 423t propellant, 27t dry, 1x F-1 engine.

Second stage, S-II-K, 1504t propellant, 96t dry, 3x F-1 engines.

First stage, S-I-K, 5640t propellant, 360t dry, 14x F-1 engines.

All-up mission launch mass of this "Saturn XIV" would be 8232 tons.

First 3 stages produce ~9600 m/s of delta-v, taking the beast to a 185km circular orbit. Fourth stage produces ~3400 m/s to send the spacecraft to the moon.

The mass could be brought down substantially with more optimized engines; both the F-1 and H-1 were designed as first-stage engines. Larger nozzle extensions, particularly on the 3rd and 4th stages, would improve the specific impulse, without requiring all-new engine designs. With an "H-1V" producing 320s ISP and an "F-1V" producing 337s, total launch mass could be brought down to 6270 tons or so, with "only" 11 engines on the first stage.

Both my answers are, obviously, merely rough Kerbal-style feasibility estimates.

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Source Link
Russell Borogove
  • 171.8k
  • 14
  • 605
  • 714

It would probably not have been practical to do a three-stage, single launch LOR Saturn/Apollo all on kerosene; the specific impulse advantage of the J-2 engines is just too great.

According to my spreadsheet estimates, a four-stage kerosene rocket almost 3 times the size of Saturn V could do it.

The translunar stage, S-IV-K, is 127 tons propellant, 8 tons dry, 47 tons payload (Apollo CSM and LM). 1x H-1 engine (as used on the Saturn 1B).

Third stage, S-III-K, 423t propellant, 27t dry, 1x F-1 engine.

Second stage, S-II-K, 1504t propellant, 96t dry, 3x F-1 engines.

First stage, S-I-K, 5640t propellant, 360t dry, 14x F-1 engines.

All-up mission launch mass of this "Saturn XIV" would be 8232 tons.

First 3 stages produce ~9600 m/s of delta-v, taking the beast to a 185km circular orbit. Fourth stage produces ~3400 m/s to send the spacecraft to the moon.

The mass could be brought down a little bit withsubstantially with more optimized engines; both the F-1 and H-1 were designed as first-stage engines. Larger nozzle extensions, particularly on the 3rd and 4th stages, would improve the specific impulse, without requiring all-new engine designs. With an "H-1V" producing 320s ISP and an "F-1V" producing 337s, total launch mass could be brought down to 6270 tons or so, with "only" 11 engines on the first stage.

It would probably not have been practical to do a three-stage, single launch LOR Saturn/Apollo all on kerosene; the specific impulse advantage of the J-2 engines is just too great.

According to my spreadsheet estimates, a four-stage kerosene rocket almost 3 times the size of Saturn V could do it.

The translunar stage, S-IV-K, is 127 tons propellant, 8 tons dry, 47 tons payload (Apollo CSM and LM). 1x H-1 engine (as used on the Saturn 1B).

Third stage, S-III-K, 423t propellant, 27t dry, 1x F-1 engine.

Second stage, S-II-K, 1504t propellant, 96t dry, 3x F-1 engines.

First stage, S-I-K, 5640t propellant, 360t dry, 14x F-1 engines.

All-up mission launch mass of this "Saturn XIV" would be 8232 tons.

First 3 stages produce ~9600 m/s of delta-v, taking the beast to a 185km circular orbit. Fourth stage produces ~3400 m/s to send the spacecraft to the moon.

The mass could be brought down a little bit with more optimized engines; both the F-1 and H-1 were designed as first-stage engines. Larger nozzle extensions, particularly on the 3rd and 4th stages, would improve the specific impulse, without requiring all-new engine designs.

It would probably not have been practical to do a three-stage, single launch LOR Saturn/Apollo all on kerosene; the specific impulse advantage of the J-2 engines is just too great.

According to my spreadsheet estimates, a four-stage kerosene rocket almost 3 times the size of Saturn V could do it.

The translunar stage, S-IV-K, is 127 tons propellant, 8 tons dry, 47 tons payload (Apollo CSM and LM). 1x H-1 engine (as used on the Saturn 1B).

Third stage, S-III-K, 423t propellant, 27t dry, 1x F-1 engine.

Second stage, S-II-K, 1504t propellant, 96t dry, 3x F-1 engines.

First stage, S-I-K, 5640t propellant, 360t dry, 14x F-1 engines.

All-up mission launch mass of this "Saturn XIV" would be 8232 tons.

First 3 stages produce ~9600 m/s of delta-v, taking the beast to a 185km circular orbit. Fourth stage produces ~3400 m/s to send the spacecraft to the moon.

The mass could be brought down substantially with more optimized engines; both the F-1 and H-1 were designed as first-stage engines. Larger nozzle extensions, particularly on the 3rd and 4th stages, would improve the specific impulse, without requiring all-new engine designs. With an "H-1V" producing 320s ISP and an "F-1V" producing 337s, total launch mass could be brought down to 6270 tons or so, with "only" 11 engines on the first stage.

added 279 characters in body
Source Link
Russell Borogove
  • 171.8k
  • 14
  • 605
  • 714
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Source Link
Russell Borogove
  • 171.8k
  • 14
  • 605
  • 714
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