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Can we use Webb’s telescope shield to prevent or significantly reduce boil off of propellant from StarsShip fuel depot, made from a single StarShip in Earth orbit?

For JWST, its sunshield covers its hexagonal mirror and optics package, but for our case what size shield do we need to have and by what principle would it cool the cryogenic fuels? If anything both Webb’s sunshield and methalox are pink (as shown in image below).

enter image description here

Thanks in advance.

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    $\begingroup$ The sun shield was insanely expensive and difficult to make, making it 5 times bigger to cover starship wouldn't make it any cheaper. Probably not worth the effort $\endgroup$ Commented Apr 29 at 5:10
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    $\begingroup$ The third paragraph about hydrolox/methalox is a separate question. It's probably better to remove this part and just ask the sun-shield question. Maybe asked the hydrolox/methalox question separately. $\endgroup$
    – Galerita
    Commented Apr 29 at 6:31
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    $\begingroup$ So I don't think we can a priori assume this would by extension be as insanely expensive and insanely difficult as the shield for JWST. That one absolutely had to work and work perfectly, or a truely insane amount of money and time would be lost, whereas there's always more LOX in the sea.. $\endgroup$
    – uhoh
    Commented Apr 29 at 6:55
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    $\begingroup$ Good point I’ve created separate question for the lox part space.stackexchange.com/q/65978/54861 $\endgroup$
    – estinamir
    Commented Apr 29 at 7:07
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    $\begingroup$ The cost of such a shade would depend on many factors such as the trade off between active cooling v shield size, shape and material used. I suspect that if SpaceX were building it the cost might be very significantly reduced from anything remotely like JWST levels. $\endgroup$
    – Slarty
    Commented Apr 29 at 18:51

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"Can we use Webb’s telescope shield to prevent or significantly reduce boil off of propellant from StarsShip fuel depot in Earth orbit?"

Yes we could. However the JWST required very low temperatures in order to ensure its highly sensitive instruments worked properly. It would not be necessary to cool Starship to the same degree so using the JWST shield would be very expensive and unnecessary.

"what size shield do we need to have?"

It really depends on to what extent you want to reduce the boil off and how reflective it is. It would be best to shield the whole vehicle to prevent conduction through the skin from the cargo bay area down to the propellant tanks. It would be most important to shield Starship from the Sun, but shielding from Earth light would also be very beneficial.

"By what principle would it cool the cryogenic fuels?"

The shield would firstly prevent radiation from the Sun and Earth being absorbed by the tanks and warming them up. With sufficient shielding the tanks would lose energy by radiation. In the most extreme case, if Starship was 100% shielded from everything except deep space Starship would slowly cool down to the background temperature of space of just under 3 degrees K.

However this process would take a long time due to the mass of Starship and the fact that the contents of the tanks are liquid. The cooled liquids would slowly freeze but this would also involve removing the latent heat of fusion and radiating that away to. But given sufficient time the contents would freeze completely solid and tend towards around 3 degrees K.

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  • $\begingroup$ It's not quite true that the JWST sunshade would be overkill for cooling hydrogen. In fact it would come up a bit short. The sunshade cools the shaded side of JWST down to about -233 degrees Celsius (40 Kelvin). Hydrogen boils at a slightly lower temperature of 20 Kelvin ( –253° C) . JWST then uses a two-stage nitrogen and helium cryocooler to bring some of the instruments down to 7 K (-266° C). The first stage of the cooler brings the temp down to 18 K, so really only the second stage of the cryocooler would be overkill. $\endgroup$ Commented Apr 29 at 22:25
  • $\begingroup$ You are correct. Although I had assumed that the cryogenic propellants would be liquid methane and liquid oxygen since methalox was mentioned and they are being stored in a Starship which has tanks designed for methalox. $\endgroup$
    – Slarty
    Commented Apr 30 at 13:21
  • $\begingroup$ Yes fully agree for the Starship question that you were answering the JWST sunshade would be somewhat overkill. But maybe all they have to do is build it with fewer layers for methane, somewhat reducing the complexity. As for a hydrogen fuel depot maybe the shade would just need more layers. Of course it may not be quite that simple. $\endgroup$ Commented Apr 30 at 13:35
  • $\begingroup$ At the 40K of the JWST shield you just need your tanks to take >15 bar pressure to keep in the supercritical phase. $\endgroup$
    – Jon Custer
    Commented Apr 30 at 13:59
  • $\begingroup$ @Jon Custer sadly they won't take much more than about 8 bar. $\endgroup$
    – Slarty
    Commented Apr 30 at 16:24

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